May 2, 2012

Trial: O'Driscoll Transcript

Below is the transcript of JMU athletic director Jeff Bourne's testimony Wednesday in the Marist v. Brady trial.



2 a witness on behalf of the defendant, having been

3 duly sworn by the Court, was examined and testified

4 as follows:

5 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Please have

6 a seat. Please tell me your full name and

7 spell it for me.

8 THE WITNESS: Robert Keith O'Driscoll,

9 Jr., R-O-B-E-R-T, K-E-I-T-H,

10 O-'-D-R-I-S-C-O-L-L, J-R.

11 THE COURT: And your business address,

12 sir?

13 THE WITNESS: James Madison University,

14 895 University Boulevard, Harrisonburg,

15 Virginia, 22807.

16 THE COURT: Mr. DuVall, direct

17 examination.

18 MR. DU VALL: Thank you.



21 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. O'Driscoll. How

22 are you currently employed?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. How are you currently employed?

25 A. I am the associate head men's basketball


1 coach at James Madison.

2 Q. And I have heard of assistant coaches

3 and associate coaches. How do they rank?

4 A. I'm the top assistant -

5 Q. So the head coach would be -

6 A. - to Matt Brady.

7 Q. - top -

8 A. Then me, then the two assistants.

9 Q. Okay. If you could take the jury back

10 to the beginning - well, withdrawn. What is your

11 education?

12 A. I graduated Westtown School, graduated

13 Villanova University with a bachelor's in

14 accountancy, and I have a master's in business

15 administration from Villanova too.

16 Q. Okay. And at what point in time did

17 you start on a basketball-based career?

18 A. When I graduated Villanova, I became the

19 director of basketball operations for Villanova

20 University as I was getting my master's.

21 Q. And when was that?

22 A. '94/'95.

23 Q. And how long were you at Villanova?

24 A. For two years.

25 Q. Where did you go after that?


1 A. Manhattan College for two years.

2 Q. What was your position at Manhattan?

3 A. Assistant coach.

4 Q. And who was the head coach?

5 A. John Leonard.

6 Q. Now, Coach Martin testified here

7 yesterday. Did you become acquainted with Coach

8 Martin while you were at Manhattan?

9 A. I've known Chuck for about 15 years.

10 Q. Okay. And how long were you at

11 Manhattan?

12 A. Two years.

13 Q. And what did you do after that?

14 A. I went to coach at Iona College, New

15 Rochelle.

16 Q. You were an assistant coach?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And how long were you at Iona?

19 A. Six years.

20 Q. While you were at Iona, what were your

21 duties in general?

22 A. I was the restricted earnings coach. So

23 I did a lot of on campus recruiting, scouting

24 reports, game preparation, individual skill

25 development, and also ran their camp as well.


1 Q. What does restricted earnings mean?

2 A. There was a rule back in the '90s where

3 the third assistant coach on the staff could only

4 make a certain amount of money and it was capped.

5 Q. Was that a NCAA rule?

6 A. It was an NCAA rule and it actually got

7 overturned in court, it was illegal. We got back

8 pay for the years that we were restricted earnings.

9 It is no longer a position.

10 Q. Okay. After Iona, where did you go?

11 A. Marist College for four years.

12 Q. When did you start at Marist?

13 A. 2004.

14 Q. Was that when Coach Brady first became

15 the head coach?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And had you met Coach Brady prior to

18 that?

19 A. Yeah, a couple times, just seeing him on

20 the road recruiting.

21 Q. And what were your duties at Marist as

22 - withdrawn. Were you hired as the associate head

23 coach?

24 A. I was the top assistant.

25 Q. Top assistant. What were your duties


1 at Marist under Coach Brady?

2 A. Help run the program, pretty much run

3 the day-to-day operations, get involved in scouting,

4 game preparation, recruiting, pretty much anything

5 that involved day-to-day basketball operations.

6 Q. Did you have a different sphere of

7 operation from the other assistants or were you all

8 doing the same thing?

9 A. We pretty much coached a lot of

10 basketball. I was probably more hands-on on campus

11 with the day-to-day operations, while the other two

12 coaches did a lot more recruiting than I did.

13 Q. You wouldn't travel out in the field to

14 tournaments as much as they would?

15 A. Yes, I would, not as much as they would,

16 but I would go out.

17 MR. DU VALL: Let me think for a second.

18 If I spend a minute thinking, it saves time.

19 MR. HANNIGAN: No objection.

20 MR. DU VALL: Thank you. I won't object

21 if you think.

22 Q. Did there come a point in time when you

23 became aware that Coach Brady was being considered

24 for another position?

25 A. Yes.


1 Q. And approximately when was that?

2 A. Sometime during March of 2008 I guess.

3 Q. How did you learn about that?

4 A. Coach Brady said he was interviewing at

5 James Madison.

6 Q. What did that mean to you?

7 MR. HANNIGAN: Objection as to form.

8 THE COURT: I will allow it.

9 A. I was hoping that he would get a head

10 coaching job because I was trying to get the head

11 coaching job at Marist. So I was eager for him to

12 get another job.

13 Q. Did you tell that to Coach Brady?

14 A. Yeah.

15 Q. What did he say, if anything, to you

16 about that?

17 A. I thought he was - he was excited for

18 my opportunity, and if I didn't get the job, then I

19 had a job down there with him, or whatever other job

20 he would get.

21 Q. And did he tell you that before he went

22 off to Atlanta?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Did there come a point in time that you

25 learned, in fact, he had been offered the job at


1 JMU?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did you have any discussion with Tim

4 Murray after that?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And when was the first discussion you

7 had with Mr. Murray after learning that Coach Brady

8 had been offered the job at JMU?

9 A. A couple days later, it was either the

10 next day or the day after.

11 Q. Do you recall the sum and substance of

12 the discussion?

13 A. I interviewed for the job hoping to get

14 the job at Marist. I mean my wife is a Marist alum,

15 I love working at Marist, love the Hudson Valley,

16 and we were looking forward to staying here and

17 hopefully lead the Marist basketball program.

18 Q. Did you tell that to Tim Murray?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. In your discussion, did you have any -

21 did you mention any ability that you might have to

22 retain prospective student athletes that had been

23 recruited by Coach Brady and the other assistants

24 during the past year or two?

25 A. No.


1 Q. Did Tim Murray say anything to you,

2 either in that discussion or any other time, about

3 his belief about Marist ability to land prospective

4 recruits?

5 A. Yes, he did.

6 Q. And what did he say to you?

7 A. He understood that all the players that

8 we were recruiting, that he understands how the

9 business was, and they're not going to come to

10 Marist now that Coach Brady is no longer the head

11 coach.

12 Q. And were you surprised when he said

13 that?

14 A. No, that's typically how it works in

15 college basketball.

16 Q. And had you seen that happen at other

17 institutions where you had been employed?

18 A. Where I had been employed, no, because I

19 never left with a head coach to go somewhere else.

20 Q. Okay. Had you seen that at other

21 institutions?

22 A. All the time, yes.

23 Q. Tell me what records were regularly

24 maintained by you and the other assistants, and

25 particularly recruiting records, at Marist College?


1 A. Just the compliance logs which we turned

2 in on a monthly basis to the compliance officer.

3 Q. You didn't keep folders or books on

4 prospects?

5 A. Not really.

6 Q. No. How, if you were recruiting

7 someone, what records would you have that would

8 enable you to locate the candidate's phone number

9 or contacts?

10 A. I would normally call their high school

11 coach and get their phone number and just put their

12 phone number into my phone.

13 Q. So your phone would be -

14 A. Pretty much.

15 Q. - your file basically?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. At the time you - ultimately,

18 obviously, you did not get the Marist head coach

19 job?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. At the time you left, did Tim Murray

22 have any discussion with you about having you turn

23 over records or -

24 A. No. He just - he asked me for the

25 three recruits' phone numbers, which I didn't have


1 at the time.

2 THE COURT: I know it is difficult, but

3 you have to wait until the question ends,

4 then pause, then take a breath, then answer.


6 THE COURT: Okay?


8 THE COURT: Thank you.

9 Q. You said you did not have those phone

10 numbers?

11 A. No, I did not.

12 Q. Okay.

13 MR. DU VALL: I have nothing else.

14 MR. HANNIGAN: Just a couple things,

15 Your Honor.


17 THE COURT: Very well,

18 cross-examination.



21 Q. Did Coach Brady ever tell you about -

22 withdrawn. You were his top assistant, right?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You didn't have the phone numbers for

25 the recruits, the Marist recruits?


1 A. No.

2 Q. Did you ever get them and give them to

3 Tim Murray?

4 A. No.

5 Q. He asked you for them, though?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. Did Coach Brady ever tell you

8 about the clause in his contract which prohibited

9 him from having any contact with the recruits -

10 A. I read his contract, yes.

11 Q. If I could try to finish the question?

12 Thank you.

13 A. Sorry.

14 THE WITNESS: Sorry, Your Honor.

15 Q. If he left Marist and took another job,

16 did he ever tell you about that clause in his

17 contract?

18 A. I was aware of that contract because I

19 read it, yes.

20 Q. When did you read it?

21 A. I think when he got the second contract.

22 Q. I am sorry, I couldn't hear you.

23 A. I believe when he got the second

24 contract, I saw it.

25 Q. When you say when he got it, after he


1 signed it?

2 A. At some point after he signed it, yes.

3 Q. How long, do you know?

4 A. Sometime during the year.

5 Q. What year was that?

6 A. The last year we were at Marist,

7 2007/2008 season.

8 Q. So you were fully aware of that clause

9 in his contract?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Regarding the recruits, right?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. When you had that interview with Tim

14 Murray when you were leaving and you were told you

15 weren't getting the job as head coach -

16 A. I wasn't told I wasn't getting the job.

17 I was just - from dealing with him and talking to

18 him, it was evident that I wasn't going to be a

19 candidate.

20 In retrospect, and Tim might feel

21 otherwise, I think if I had stayed there for three

22 weeks and run the program and showed Tim on a daily

23 basis I was able to run the program, it might have

24 been different, but that is not for me to answer,

25 that is up to Tim to answer.


1 Q. Sure. Following up on that, if you had

2 gotten the job as head coach and stayed there, you

3 would have wanted those four recruits to come to

4 Marist and play basketball for you, right?

5 A. No, not at all. I believe a basketball

6 player and a student athlete in general should be

7 able to choose what coach he wants to go for as

8 anybody else.

9 Q. Oh, sure, I degree totally with that,

10 and so does Marist.

11 What I asked you, though, the question

12 - if you could try to focus on that, I would

13 appreciate it - the question was, if you got this

14 job to be the head basketball coach at Marist, the

15 job you said you really wanted, you would have

16 wanted those four highly recruited players for

17 Marist to come there and play basketball for the

18 program if you were the head coach, wouldn't you?

19 A. Not at all.

20 Q. You would not want them to come there?

21 A. No, not at all. I would want them to go

22 to the coach, the college and the coach, they wanted

23 to play for, and I was fully ready to recruit my own

24 players.

25 Q. When you were recruiting them, when


1 your program was recruiting them while you were at

2 Marist, you wanted them to come to Marist then,

3 didn't you?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. Because Matt Brady was the head coach

7 then.

8 Q. But you wanted those players with their

9 talent and skill level to come to Marist when you

10 were recruiting them when you were at Marist,

11 didn't you?

12 A. Of course. Matt Brady was the head

13 coach at that time.

14 Q. If you could just try to answer my

15 questions, I know what you're doing.

16 A. I am answering your questions.

17 Q. Well, you're not really.

18 THE COURT: Excuse me.

19 MR. HANNIGAN: Sorry, Your Honor.

20 THE COURT: Please don't be

21 argumentative. Just ask a question and give

22 an answer.

23 MR. HANNIGAN: I degree. I will try.

24 I'm trying.

25 THE COURT: Thank you.


1 Q. When you were recruiting those players

2 - if you could just focus on what I'm saying - at

3 Marist when you were there, and one of them had a

4 national letter of intent signed and two of them

5 had verbally committed, you, as part of this

6 program, wanted those players during that time

7 period to come to Marist and play basketball for

8 the Marist program; is that correct? Yes or no.

9 A. Of course.

10 Q. Thank you. Did Tim Murray ever tell

11 you before the time you left Marist that Matt Brady

12 was relieved or released from his obligations under

13 his contract not to have any contact with the

14 recruits?

15 A. I don't believe so, no.

16 Q. If he told you that, do you think you

17 would remember it?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. And you don't, do you?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. I knew, I was aware of the clause -

23 Q. I think you answered the question.

24 A. Okay.

25 Q. Thanks. And when you got down to JMU,


1 you and the other assistants and Matt Brady

2 continued to pursue those four recruits to come to

3 JMU, right?

4 A. Yes, we did.

5 MR. HANNIGAN: Thank you. No other

6 questions.

7 MR. DU VALL: Just a little bit.



10 Q. If you had become the head men's

11 basketball coach at Marist, why wouldn't you want

12 the players that had been recruited previously?

13 MR. HANNIGAN: Objection as to form.

14 THE COURT: I will permit it.

15 A. Because -

16 THE COURT: Overruled.

17 A. Because I think that a student athlete

18 should be able to choose a college based on where he

19 wants to go to school, and if they wanted to come

20 play for Coach Brady and Coach Brady was no longer

21 there, they should have the right to go to play for

22 Coach Brady wherever he is.

23 It is similar to if a cello player wants

24 to go to a great teacher at a certain school and she

25 moves to a different school, the cello player is not


1 going to play for or go to that teacher, they want

2 to go to the teacher that they wanted to earn their

3 tutelage in.

4 Q. All right. Thank you.

5 MR. DU VALL: I have nothing further.

6 MR. HANNIGAN: I am good, Your Honor.

7 Thank you.

8 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may

9 step down.

10 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor.

11 (Witness excused.)

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